Jonathan Hawkins: [00:00:00] How do you instill the grit and perseverance in your kids? How do you balance, hey, I want to give them what I didn’t have, with, hey, I also want to give them what I have, in terms of the grit.
Chris Earley: Yeah. You’re not kidding. That’s a tough question. So I’ll give an example. So, you know, back in the day I saw my father in homeless shelters. So my family, on occasion, would go to a homeless shelter and donate food. You know, like that’s service. So it’s like, Yeah, you know, my kids have a couple, you know, they have resources, but let’s not forget about the community.
Let’s think about what others don’t have. So it’s keeping them super humble, like, and hungry, right? Like humble and hungry is my main motivation, but you know, John Morgan, you can’t teach hungry. And I’ve talked to him about that. And that’s a hard, it’s like, can you know, If you have a child who doesn’t want to get after, thankfully my kids evidence to me ambition, right?
At least at an early age
[00:01:00]
Jonathan Hawkins: All right. Welcome to Founding Partner Podcast. I’m Jonathan Hawkins. Really excited about today’s guest. You’ve probably seen him cause he’s everywhere I look. This guy is there. We’re going to talk about that. We’ve got Chris Early, personal injury attorney from Massachusetts. Chris, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell the audience what they need to know about you?
Chris Earley: Hey, Jonathan, I’m really happy to be here. I appreciate you. I appreciate the good work you’re putting out. I see you everywhere too. So I’m just trying to keep up with you. I’m really excited to talk with you. I’m an open book. I like to discuss this stuff because I’m a nerd with the business of law.[00:02:00]
So I’m excited to chop it up with you. I’m sure we’re going to give some value to the audience. I’m just, I’m excited. So thank you for having me. I really appreciate
Jonathan Hawkins: So cool. So tell us about your firm. You know, how many attorneys, how many staff, where are you, how many locations, all that sort of stuff.
Chris Earley: Sure. So we have three lawyers. We have 15 staff in total. We have two offices, one in Boston and one just south of Boston in Hingham Massachusetts. And we’re, you know, fast growing firm, trying to do good work for good people. And this thing I’m blessed to say keeps growing. So just super grateful Matt.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, if I remember correctly, you started this firm straight out of law school, right?
Chris Earley: Correct. Yeah. I was with a, I was with a quasi partner for. A very short time, maybe like six months, I’d say, and that fizzled amicably. So I hung out a shingle boy, about seven, God, 19, 18 years ago. Time flies. But [00:03:00] yeah, for pretty much my whole career, I’ve been self employed and I’ve never looked back.
It’s been quite a journey, as you know.
Jonathan Hawkins: so, so, you know, there, there are a lot of folks out there that some people start it straight out of law school. Others feel like, hey, I want to get my sea legs underneath me first. How did you have the guts to go and just Go.
Chris Earley: I mean, you know, when you’re young and dumb, it’s pretty easy because you don’t know any better. So, you know, I was 28, maybe 29, just turned 29 and just didn’t have kids and wasn’t married. And so I just had no clue, Jonathan, like I didn’t know anything. I had never really gotten clerk experience in law school, didn’t know anything.
And so I do have a little bit of entrepreneurial blood, and so I just sort of leaned into that risk and uncertainty and just went for it and brick by brick, you build, right, you know, just like you, you know, you know, I know you can relate. It’s just like you build, you grow, you catch, some things catch fire, and some things [00:04:00] crash and burn, but you keep going up, right?
And that’s the idea. But just, you know, a lot of good times, a lot of hard times growing this thing, but it’s all been worth it. It’s been a really good ride, so I’m excited to see where it takes me for sure.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, it’s we’ll get into some of this. You know, everybody talks about in law school you, they don’t teach you how to run a business. So most lawyers don’t, you know, they learn it on the job. I mean, I guess most business people sort of learn it on the job. So that, you know, I understand that, but what’s it like learning how to practice law on the job?
Did you have mentors? Where did you go to, learn it?
Chris Earley: A lot of, you know, I had a couple mentors. I availed myself of, you know, local listservs, and I would pick the brain of, you know, more experienced attorneys. Just a lot of, you know, my first trial with Jonathan, I had no freaking idea. I don’t think I’d ever even seen a trial. And I tried this personal injury case.
I’ll never forget the client. I remember her name. And. The judge was very hard on me because I [00:05:00] had no idea what it was very unforgiving. This is almost 20 years ago. So hopefully judge a little bit more tolerant, but man, it was hard. So a lot of that’s example, just learning on the job, right?
Probably should have settled that case if I had known better, I would have, but you will learn, you cut your teeth, you get punched in the face. I talk about that a lot. And so those things, they help you along. I would just, it was a lot of on the, you know, a lot of on the job training. Just myself learning, you know, but I felt like, you know, personal injury was something I gravitated towards and just really liked it.
I liked helping people. I liked negotiating. I like dealing with the insurance industry on behalf of, you know, injured people. And so a lot of just on the job learning, to be honest with
Jonathan Hawkins: Did you always just do personal injury or did you experiment with
Chris Earley: That’s it? No, that’s it. I remember, you know, I had a criminal case on my first cases And I got so nervous, I think I, like, threw up in the bathroom.
I was just terrified of going to court and represent this man [00:06:00] who’s being charged criminally. And I thought, this isn’t my, this isn’t the right place for me. Like, I shouldn’t be doing criminal work. And so I sort of just, like, settled a few cases in the, on the PI side and said, Okay, this is a little more, I like this feels more, this is a better feeling.
I like this more. So I kind of just fell into it, you know, and took it from there.
Jonathan Hawkins: And you start your own firm. You probably don’t have many clients. Maybe you had a few and then you do personal injury and that takes, you know, nine to 12 months before they start paying. How did you float it for the first year? How’d you get through that?
Chris Earley: So really kept the expenses low. I had like a closet, man. It was like a few hundred bucks a month, literally. And that was a lot of money because I was broke as a joke. You know, just living in a studio apartment in downtown Boston. Just not having anything, no access to cash. And so I remember selling the case for like 75,000 And I thought, holy smokes, this is a lot. This is a [00:07:00] big deal. It’s still a big deal today. But back then it was like, holy smokes, like we’re cooking with gas now. So a couple of those hits it allowed me to just keep going, keep investing, you know. I was advertising on like Craigslist, you know, I don’t know if you know, remember that from back in the day, but like it was free, it’s like all day I was like posting ads, you know, just personal injury attorney and just like, I look back, man, I did flyers.
My wife and I, back in the day, we flyered cars in a parking lot and I got, I just. I just didn’t care. I just had to do this grassroots marketing. And we can talk about that, you know, at any point, you know, in our call today, but that’s still near and dear to my heart. You know, grassroots marketing is something I’m very fond of.
And I always have. And I did that back in the day, but you got to hustle, man. You know, I know, you know, when you’re running a business, you got to get after it. Whether, you know, I’m 47 now, whether I’m 47 or 20, 27, you have to just, [00:08:00] you got to pay the bills, make it happen. Hustle.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. You know, you talk a lot about the hustle and the grit and I’m with you a hundred percent. And I would like to touch on your childhood and how you grew up. And I think that probably led a lot to it, but even the early part of your firm, you know, the folks that have to hustle early on and really work, it sets you up for the rest of your life.
For me, at least, you know. I’ve always worked hard. I was not the best at really anything and I had to work, outwork everybody. And I always felt like I could outwork anybody. And I think it helps me in all aspects of my life. And so probably, you know, your childhood, let’s talk about that, but then also how it led to.
Number one, I’m curious how it led you to be a lawyer and then, you know, the foundation that it provided you to help you build what you are building now.
Chris Earley: appreciate that. so I come from a you know, family where there was addiction, homelessness, you know. Trauma, saw some, I was just at the Miami trial lawyers conference last [00:09:00] week, speaking about this on stage. And so at the need to share your story. So anyone listens, you know, whoever, you know, when you’re listening to this, I think this is a writer downer, share your story.
So here’s my story, right? My story is coming from a family saddled with tragedy, you know, very sad stuff. And then I was the first I was my mother’s first child to graduate college and then law school. I’m writing a book right now about, about getting over, you know, about getting over trauma, dealing with it.
You just said before, Jonathan, about outworking people and you and I, man, like I’m with you on that because I’ll outwork you. You know, it’s like you may have a better SAT score, may have a higher grade point, but you and I know in the real world, like that doesn’t matter. It’s like, what are you doing? What are you, and I talk about this on LinkedIn daily, like, what are you doing?
Hustle. Get after it. So my story is a blessing because it came out good in that I’m blessed to have a healthy marriage. I have two healthy kids and trying to like rewrite [00:10:00] the narrative and give them a better upbringing that I did definitely didn’t have writing a memoir right now. It’s like about sharing your story, like a memoir is a serious way.
to not only share your story, but that can obviously help with business. People get to know you. You can peek behind the curtain, right? I’m not just, you know, personal injury lawyer. And I just, you know, I’m not here to chase ambulances. I’m actually here to help people because I come from very humble beginnings.
And I’ve seen homelessness. I’ve smelled homelessness, you know, from my father. I’ve seen addiction, smelled addiction. So those things make me very sensitive to helping people who need our help. So this is very important work to me. And, you know, and that, that gives me motivation to just grind and just, you know, get after as much as possible.
Jonathan Hawkins: I’m glad you’re writing the memoir for a couple reasons. Number one, it’s a gift to the world, but it’s a gift to your kids. You know, I talked to, you know, have conversations with my parents and you hear these stories. And I think in my head, I wish I had that written [00:11:00] down the fact that you’re going to write this down.
They’ll have that your grandkids, whoever they’ll have that forever and ever. I think that’s a really cool idea. Even if no one reads it, your kids will at least,
Chris Earley: hundred percent. You just hit the nail on the head. I don’t really care. Exactly. That’s reason enough. You know, that’s, you get it. You’re a father, right?
Jonathan Hawkins: Yes.
Chris Earley: I remember we talked about this, so you get it, you know, you’re a father, you’re working hard and you and I have definitely connected on that.
So. But that’s what it’s about, right? Kids, giving them better than we had. That just, that, that lights me up.
Jonathan Hawkins: All right. Here’s a tough question. This is one that I’ve thought about. I’m sure you’ve thought about it. I know your kids are very important to you. I see you post about them and we’re talking about it now. You had a challenging childhood. It led you to the grit and perseverance you have now. Your kids are having a better time than you had, just like mine.
How do you instill the grit and perseverance in your kids? How do you [00:12:00] balance, hey, I want to give them what I didn’t have, with, hey, I also want to give them what I have, in terms of the grit.
Chris Earley: Yeah. You’re not kidding. That’s a tough question. So I’ll give an example. So, you know, back in the day I saw my father in homeless shelters. So my family, on occasion, would go to a homeless shelter and donate food. You know, like that’s service. So it’s like, Yeah, you know, my kids have a couple, you know, they have resources, but let’s not forget about the community.
Let’s think about what others don’t have. So it’s keeping them super humble, like, and hungry, right? Like humble and hungry is my main motivation, but you know, John Morgan, you can’t teach hungry. And I’ve, I’ve talked to him about that. And that’s a hard, it’s like, can you know, If you have a child who doesn’t want to get after, thankfully my kids evidence to me ambition, right?
At least at an early age, but I couldn’t teach them to be ambitious, right? So I want to give a book recommendation, a book I read for all the dads. It’s called The Daily Dad. And I read one passage a day. It’s like [00:13:00] change my approach to parenting. I have a daughter. I recommend another book called Strong Father, Strong Daughter, you know.
That, to me, is my why. So, like, I look at, you know, the early law group as a place to employ great people, provide work, at the end of the day, like, to allow me to be with my kids, you know, to give them that. So, I think you can’t, I agree with John Morgan, you can’t teach hungry. try not to pressure my kids.
So, like, that book, The Daily Debt, is all about, like, hey, if your kid is into, like, water polo, like, invest, do whatever you gotta do, support him in water polo. If you like paper airplanes, like You know, I read about Will Ferrell. He was into like square dancing or like some weird thing. And his parents like go at it.
Like we, we trust you. And he was like straight a high, he was like a very high intellect guy. He was capable of such academic achievement, but yet he liked to like square dance or something, you know, some other random thing he was into. They supported that and that’s really cool. So like, I just feel like, you know, very long winded way to [00:14:00] support your kids.
And then they’ll just flourish, I feel like, but that’s easier said than done, right? It’s hard. You have twins? Do I
Jonathan Hawkins: Twins. That’s right. Girl, boy.
Chris Earley: I love it. That’s so
Jonathan Hawkins: it’s funny. You know, they came from the same gene pool, but it makes you forgive yourself a little bit because, you know, they came from the same gene pool, but they’re completely
Chris Earley: a hundred percent. Yeah.
Jonathan Hawkins: way or doesn’t act a certain way.
Like it’s not my fault. They just sort of are who they are.
Chris Earley: It’s up to twins. That’s a cool ride though. That’s a cool ride to be on.
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let’s shift back to your firm. So you started just you, well, maybe you had a short stint with a partner and then it was you take us through sort of how you grew over the years. You got two offices now, you didn’t get there overnight, you know, take us through that a little bit.
Chris Earley: I’ll tell you, it was many years of plateauing. You know, I’ve only seen rapid growth. That’s a less four or five years, [00:15:00] right? So for many years, just doing what every lawyer does. I was, you know, I was advertising back in the yellow pages trying to shout the loudest. I was focused on. I was focused on cash too much, making money as opposed to helping people.
I was focused on being a taker and not sharing things and not being generous and not thinking long term. So I’d say in the past five years, and things are really growing, right? The income was rising, but I’d say in the past five years has been totally different just in terms of, you know, we had like two people that were up to, you know, 15.
We had one small little office. Now we have. Total of three offices, two were in the same building, but a total of three, and we people are all over the world, you know, helping us. So there’s been such growth, but my mind, my mindset shifted in like 2019. That’s when things change. just my point is doing a lot of like boring lawyer stuff.
That’s way too conventional and traditional, you know, average gets you average results I found. [00:16:00] And so I try to like. Get into big rooms, you know, mastermind rooms, going to conferences, getting coaching. Now, I’m fortunate, you know, to be a coach. And so these little things it’s not like I’ve been crushing it, right?
It’s not, I’m not crushing now, but I’m hungry to crush it. And so the past five years, I feel like Quick growth, but it wasn’t an overnight thing. It took time, right? And I’m always talking about it on LinkedIn. You gotta just grind. And then sometimes you catch fire and you go, you know, you rise quicker than you were in the past. But I, you know, I was talking about this on LinkedIn today. I think I scheduled a post for tomorrow about you need to you gotta keep going. You know, you may look around and say, I’m not as far along as that attorney. I’m not as accomplished as that attorney. You have to just like do the work. You know, I love what you said earlier about outworking people.
Like that’s my DNA, like outworking, you know, cause you and I will outwork the average person, the average bear. You do that over a long period of time. It just took me longer. It took me into my early [00:17:00] forties to get going. I would encourage the entire audience, listen to this, you got to keep plugging. It may come earlier for you or later like it was for me, but.
You gotta crush it every day, and then I think good things happen, you know?
Jonathan Hawkins: So, so let me ask, you said about four or five years ago is when it really hit. You mentioned a mindset shift. I’m curious if there’s anything else and let me put it in context. I’m an engineer undergrad. So I’m sort of a math guy, one of the math lawyers out there. And I always look at this as a exponential curve and forever.
It barely looks like it’s moving. And then all of a sudden. It just starts going up. Is that some of what it is? You just laid the foundation for many years, or was there something that you can point to that says, all right, this is when it really started to change because I did X, Y, and Z.
Chris Earley: I think I found in 2018 I found Ben Glass, and that just changed my whole ballgame. Cause it opened up so many doors, you know, [00:18:00] again, going to conferences joining a mastermind. I was in two masterminds at one point. I think when I, and I bet that’s on my podcast, the early show two weeks ago. And I said to him, man, I said, boy you helped me, you know?
And I think when I found him, I was having a crappy day at work. I took the day off. My wife’s like, you’re not going to work today. What’s up with you, man? I said, I’m having a bit, I gotta just. Stay home today. And I started Googling. I don’t know what I was Googling, but I found Van Glass Virginia. I said to my wife, I think I’m going to go to this conference in D.
C. I’ve never been to a conference. She’s like, okay, man, everything Jonathan from there just like mushroomed and grew. But I attribute a lot of that wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t like some random thing. Like I was itching. I was wanting more. You know, the practice was a low seven figure practice.
It was fine, but I was burning out. Just me and the assistant. It wasn’t where I wanted it to be. And so you need to, whoever, you know, you are listening, you need to find what lights you up, like we said, [00:19:00] right. And I liked like this conversation you and I are having. That’s why when you invited me out, I’m like, hell yeah.
Like, I like talking to other entrepreneur attorneys. I think it’s cool that you’re an engineer. Like, I don’t know a lot of attorneys that are also have an engineer background. It gives you an advantage, a certain analytical advantage coupled with your legal training. That’s really cool. But, you know, maybe someone else Ben Glass has resonated with.
It doesn’t matter. It could be Joe Schmo, but I feel like you have to be curious. You have to dig and find things That give you energy, right? But it was a long time coming, right? There was a lot of, you know, going from flyers to eventually the income started to rise. Able to, you know, no longer living in a studio apartment, we were going on nice Disney trips a lot, right? I was looking for more and that’s when it came about four or five years ago. And I hope that it just continues. I hope in four or five years there’s another uptick, right, as you keep going. That’s not the end of the story, we just, we’re stacking things, right, so.
Jonathan Hawkins: Ben Glass is awesome. I love it. Total mindset shift from most [00:20:00] lawyers, as you know, most lawyers. I think the old school, traditional, boring, inside the box ways, and really, you know, Ben Glass is definitely outside the box, and you are too.
Early on, you were doing all the legal work. Do you do any legal work now, or are you a pure CEO at this point?
Chris Earley: I’ve got rolled up my sleeves in past government, it’s gotten into some cases, but always seeking to delegate the legal work out. I’m trying to do as little as possible because I do enjoy the business side, the CEO side much more than the technician side. Right. And so, yeah, I got my hand in a few cases now, but as we scale, you know, I have some more help going to just.
Remove it as much as I can, you know, because I would much rather talk to a room of attorneys at a conference than argue in front of a jury. And that’s just me, you know, a lot of lawyers may think that’s kind of crazy, you know, I hear you, but we got to, again, be genuine to who you are. And so I’m trying to lean into exactly who I am, what I want to do.
And Ben Glass talks about permission, you know, Ben Glass really [00:21:00] descended from Dan Kennedy’s school of thought of like, you know, you have permission to do what you want. Right? If that’s available to you. I’m reading a really good Napoleon Hill book right now, Ladder of Success. Just such interesting stuff.
I never heard of Napoleon Hill. Then when I found out about that, I was talking about Thinker Rich. I’m like, okay, I’ll read this guy. I was like, mind blown. You know, I know, you know, it’s just it’s exciting. It’s fun, man.
Jonathan Hawkins: I’m with you. I like the business. I, since a kid, sort of have that entrepreneurial streak. There are lawyers out there that just love trying cases. I mean, I know some you, you do too, that are in their seventies and they still want to try cases. I think they’re
Chris Earley: That’s cool.
Jonathan Hawkins: and they made so much money. They don’t need to, but they just love it.
That’s not me. That’s not me. I like building a business, so take us through, you know, you’re more of the CEO now. Maybe you dabble a little bit, give strategy help on cases, maybe dabble a little bit. What’s a typical week like for you in the CEO role as [00:22:00] you’re growing your firm?
Chris Earley: Yeah. Super structured you know, time management near and dear to my heart. You know, if you’re an attorney and you’re, you know, burning both sides of the candle and you’re just stressed out, you got to get your time management on lock. You got to figure out your time. I, once I did that, I started to really get intentional right about about.
Time blocking. So my day is really a lot of visionary stuff. I get to the office 6. 15 in the morning. I live an hour away. I get here. That’s really what helped me, Jonathan. I started waking up super early. And that really started to meditate in the morning, every morning, getting up early, really, I feel like is an advantage.
Well, everyone else is sleeping. You’re like scheming your next move of your
Jonathan Hawkins: I am 100 percent with you there. For me, it started, and let me ask you,
Chris Earley: Yeah.
Jonathan Hawkins: my kids were young. That was the only time I had any time for myself, so I had to do it. I started it years ago when they were very young. But I love it, and it, you’re right, you can get so much done when no one else, [00:23:00] yeah, no one else is awake.
Chris Earley: No one else is awake and you’re getting ahead, you know, and I think that’s a small, but you know, my wife is a night owl, she’s highly productive at night, so it’s like you got to just go with your rhythm and what feels natural to you, but that’s like my unfair advantage, I’ll just. You know, I’ll just wake up earlier than everyone else and just, you know, so probably too early.
But you just, so actually, you know, just to get back to your question, just a lot of, you know, the visionary stuff trying to find speaking opportunities. Like I just reached out to the APA today about speaking opportunities because I think all attorneys who are trying to build a business should be publicly speaking, you know, networking, shaking hands, giving value.
Getting in front of an audience when you can. A lot of it is designing systems. You know, they say when you double, every time you double in size, your systems break, right? And I feel like that’s true. So every time we grow, it’s like, oh, we got to figure this problem out, but they’re good problems. Sorry, I remember living in, again, Richard, but that studio apartment, that fourth floor walk up, was living in a box.
Like, that was a problem. I’ll take these problems any day. [00:24:00] In terms of designing a system, figuring out a financial situation, right? I’ll take it any day, you know, but I just want to impress upon everyone listening, Jonathan. You know, I know you know this, but just to reinforce, like, you can have the practice you want.
You don’t have to be miserable. You don’t have, you know, you know, if you’re thinking about starting out on your own, well, there’s no better time than today, right? So, If you’re going to do it, I think you just need to jump in and do it and go for it. And if that’s not you, if you know, you want to work for someone else, all the power to you, but make sure you’re working somewhere where you’re thriving and they appreciate you.
They value because of plenty of employers that will value you, treat you with respect and let you enable you to grow. There’s no reason to be miserable, right? There’s just, there’s no time. We don’t have a lot of time here, so let’s just like make the most of it. That’s what I try
Jonathan Hawkins: yeah. So you’re, you’re in growth mode. I love it. I love ambitious lawyers. Here’s a question that I wrestle with, and I pose it to a lot of lawyers. When you’re in growth mode,[00:25:00] you have to balance the investment in the future. You got to spend money now, hoping you get it sometime down the road. How do you approach that issue or problem or whatever you want to challenge?
We’ll call it in the growth unit. Do you have a system? Do you have numbers? Do you, how do you approach it?
Chris Earley: you, I think you have to be crazy about your numbers. You know, I know you’re a real business guy. You have to know the data, the numbers, you have to geek out of the numbers and have nice spreadsheets and figure this stuff out. So I’m always reinvesting into the business, right? I mean, instead of taking the money out, I pour it back in.
If, you know, make some money, I’d rather put that towards marketing to make some more money. So increasing this, the flywheel effect, right? Just continuing to, you know, stoke that fire. That’s how I’m looking at this, you know, as an investment. I think the best investment you can make is you. So I say, you know, the best investment that I can make is Chris Early.
You know, I’m not going to, he’s not going to let himself down. [00:26:00] And so just pour into investing, you know, I spent a lot of money, you know, masterminds, coaching, education, right? A lot of just educational resources and just trying to find a little bit of an edge somewhere because as you know, personal injuries, especially in Boston, I could throw a football and hit 25 personal injury lawyers right now on the street.
I mean, there’s just, it’s, they’re everywhere, you know, so it’s a crowded space. So I gotta, I’m not John Morgan. You know, I’m Chris early, just trying to make a mark. And so we go back to the hub. You have to hustle, you know, do the work. John Morgan had to start from, you He’s a very inspiring guy.
He started with nothing. He comes from a similar background to me, and he and I talk about that in person and on my podcast. He doesn’t come from, there’s no silver spoons in his background. He talks about that. The guy’s self made. And I look at him as an example that anything can be possible in this field.
And he talked about, you know, every Friday afternoon, he would just go out and network with lawyers. He would treat it like a job, like, [00:27:00] Friday, I’m networking with lawyers. Right? We talk about the compound, compounding effect there. You keep doing that, and you grow. I’m just into these daily habits, right?
Of just a little bit each day. And generally good things have happened. it stays that way. Yeah.
Jonathan Hawkins: on any investment you make in yourself. multiples greater in my opinion than anywhere else, you know, you have 50, 000, you can invest it in the S and P 500 or a bank account or you know, the treasuries or whatever, and you’ll get some return, hopefully, maybe 10%, maybe 15, you invest in yourself or invest in your firm.
You’re hopefully you’re getting a two, three, four, five times your investment. And the other thing I like about it is you have some control that you can control your destiny huge versus someone else controlling your destiny.
Chris Earley: But that has huge [00:28:00] value right there. That’s just, that’s extremely valuable in of itself, forgetting about your financial investing in yourself, the fact that you have that autonomy, you can just do whatever you want to do. There’s great value and great owner benefit along with that. Yeah,
Jonathan Hawkins: firm is not easy. In my opinion, I’m sure there’ll be people who disagree with us, but in my opinion, getting a client. That’s an easier process than building the team, the right team.
Chris Earley: correct.
Jonathan Hawkins: are your thoughts on that and how, how have you approached building the right team?
How have you found the people and how do you build the culture at your firm?
Chris Earley: Okay, so I just literally, I just spoke about this in Miami. My speech was called how to compete with 800 pound gorilla in your market. I talked about hiring culture. client service and marketing to your tribe. It’s like a four prongs. I was just up there sharing, [00:29:00] you know, that’s another thing, Jonathan, when I share, I tend to just like receive and I would share to give, but so much comes to you.
So I encourage the lawyers, don’t be a cheapo, like share. I go on LinkedIn and like share my stuff because I don’t really care because good things happen. And if I’m helping someone great, but like it definitely is rewarding. So you’re right. You can spend money. You could, you get. a client today, okay?
It’s much harder to get the right team members because the right team members allows you to have the right culture. The right culture allows you to have the right client service. When you have good client service, it’s easier to keep people in the tribe than the herd. You put a fence around your tribe.
Once the case ends, they’re not going to go call someone else. They’re going to call Jonathan, who represents them so well and kick butt for them. They love Jonathan. They’re not going anywhere else. And I talked about this. Last week is like, what’s the point of getting the case in if the staff isn’t right, if the culture is off, if the client services is poor, like you got to have that the house has to be in order, right?
The restaurant has to be looking nice [00:30:00] and have a nice culture before the customer walks in because the customer will be walking in the door tonight at the restaurant, make sure the table, the linens are nice. You know, the waitstaff has a smile on their face. People are happy. The food is just out of this world.
Even if it’s not such great food, the presentation, how they make you feel, you know, Walt Disney had talked about a lot. He just made people feel so good. They’re like, here’s my money, you know, take it. You know, I mean, that’s the thing, but I agree with you. That’s the challenge of the people aspect because you can’t do anything without the rock stars.
You’re not going to compete. You know,
Jonathan Hawkins: And it’s tough. It’s it’s tough. I know it from personal experience, both at this firm, my firm and then at prior firms, you know, recruiting people, convincing them to join the team. That’s inertia is a very powerful force. And if they’re unless they’re really unhappy somewhere, it’s hard to get them excited to come to a new place.
You know, how do you screen for people? How do you recruit? Do you? I know it sounds like [00:31:00] values are very important to you. Do you use those as a foundation? Back to the Dan Kennedy thing, it’s, you’re both attracting who you want and repelling who you don’t want. Right.
Chris Earley: A million percent. You just said it. Everything you just said. 100%. I only want to appeal to like 1 percent of the job market. And like you said, most of the A players, they’re not looking for work. They’re taken. They’re off the market. So we’re trying to find those who are maybe a little unhappy where they are or they’re not working.
Right. So, you know, I encourage anyone to reach out to me. I’ll share with you my job ads. I have job ads for every position. And it’s like a, dating and the personals, it’s super hyper specific. I’m looking for XYZ person, you know, don’t apply if you’re not XYZ person. It has our core values.
It has our vivid vision. Vivid vision is something I took from Cameron Harrell. He started one hundred, one hundred got junk about where’s the business going. So I’m very transparent in my job ad about the core values, who we want, who we don’t want. We put our vivid vision. So I want to [00:32:00] attract people who are like, let’s get early.
Let me check him out. You know, that resonates with me. I want to go interview. So then when they come in for the interview, it’s very unconventional. I’m going to ask you a curveball questions. Yeah. You think on your feet I’m going to ask you, you know, I want to see how humble you are. I, cause I don’t want P cause I, you gotta remember my upbringing, Jonathan, like I’m.
Straight up, like, but as humble as I get because I’ve seen lives get destroyed. And so it’s like, I’m very sensitive to not having people who put on airs and think they’re better than others. I want humble people who want to serve people at a high level because they value that. It’s important to them.
And I don’t want to have my group, you know, my, my team meet with the person too, because if the team, you know, stamps, yes, I like this person, they’re going to want that person to succeed. They have buy in. They’ve invested in this person’s success. So we want that existing A player to make our new team member, then our next A player.
And the thing about, we go back to this flywheel thing, that’s what I lean into, right? [00:33:00] Because the culture you can’t buy, this is, the stuff we’re talking about right now is all free. It didn’t take any money to hire someone, well you gotta pay them a salary, but to get the right person off the street into your office sitting in a chair is free, you just gotta like screen them, ask the right questions.
And then it’s easy to, it’s not easy, it’s hard as hell, but it’s free to build the right culture, that takes time. But everything you’re saying is like next level stuff, because that’s where the, that’s where special law firms operate, in that zone of having good culture, good people, good service, raving fans.
Jonathan Hawkins: And to pick and piggyback on what you said, you have the rest of your team meet with the potential new team member that’s huge. As a players want to work with other a players. You bring a C player in it’s not a one plus one or one minus one. It’s a one minus three because that C player or D player.
Then infects everybody else. And then they’re like, get rid of this person. So it’s hugely important. [00:34:00] And it seems to me there are a lot of law firm leaders who just, I don’t know if they’re not keyed into it or they just ignore it. I don’t know what it is, but. It’s hugely important
Chris Earley: Oh, it’s critical because your staff will resent you if you hold on to that team player is clearly not pulling their weight. They’re going to resent. They may leave because of that because you’re not, you’re not walking the walk. You’re settling for status quo, right? I think that’s detrimental.
I said this last week in that presentation. This is my test. If a team member is working out or not, I asked myself, would I reenthusiastically hired rehire this person if I had the opportunity? That is a litmus test to tell you. If you made a mistake or if you did not, you got to live with that decision.
If you think you made a mistake, you have to do the right thing and set them free where they can thrive somewhere. And if you have the right hire, then pour in, invest, give them resources, educate, train them up, you know, to be the best possible team member. And if they leave, that’s okay. Cause like they’re better than, [00:35:00] I hope better than they were when they entered our space here, but like, I can’t make you stay right.
I can’t control that. I would encourage all the lawyers, you know, listen to this. If you’re, even if you’re not a lawyer, like you can’t control what you cannot control. So keep it, you know, lawyers or, you know, no matter what kind of work you’re doing, people will drive you crazy. Your staff, your clients, like worry about what you can control and let everything else go.
That’s out of your sphere of influence is here for control. That’s been helpful for me as I’ve gotten a little bit
[00:36:00]
Chris Earley: older.
Jonathan Hawkins: poking a little bit, but it’s true. You seem to be everywhere all at once and you do a lot of different stuff. I think really, I mean, your LinkedIn posts are great. I encourage everybody to follow you there. If they’re not already you are a columnist for maybe one or two publications.
I want you to go through this in a minute, but let me tee it up for you. You’re you’ve got. Weekly email to lawyers. I think you’ve got another weekly email to clients. Maybe you have another weekly email for something else. You go to events, you’ve got a podcast, you’ve got all sorts of stuff. So take us through some of that.
You know, if I’m a, if I’m a new lawyer or a new law firm owner, I look at what Chris Early is doing and I am intimidated as hell. I’m like, there’s no way I’ll ever be able to do this. And I guess the first thing is you didn’t do all of this all at once overnight, did you? Take us through how this happened, right?
Chris Earley: No, but like, you know, I gotta be, I gotta be real with you. Like, I’m not like, you know, I [00:37:00] passed the bar the first time. I didn’t go to like some elite law school, you know, like just like a normal dude. But again, we keep going back to like, you and I are like, did you have a paper? Were you a paper boy back in the day by chance or no?
Okay.
Jonathan Hawkins: I I’ve got a pretty funny, I don’t know if it wastes time today, but I’ve got a pretty good one. Yeah, I’ll tell you real quick. I’ll tell you real quick, basically. So I remember, I remember this kid, I wanted a telephone in my room and my parents were like, no, you do not get a telephone in your room.
And back then I was a cub scout and I don’t know if you were a cub scout, but on the back of, they
Chris Earley: I worked on,
Jonathan Hawkins: magazine, they had this. I can’t remember what it was, like a wrapping paper thing. You could sell wrapping paper door to door for prizes. And one of the prizes was this telephone. It was shaped like a football is NFL football phone.
And I sent in a postcard. I didn’t tell my parents, I sent in a postcard. They sent me the catalog. I went door to door. Through the neighborhood and I sold enough to where I [00:38:00] could get the phone and then, you know, got all the stuff delivered. I got the money, got the phone, all that stuff. And then the phone came in the mail.
I was so happy. I was like, so triumphant. I went to my parents. I was like, I’ve got a phone and it’s going in my room.
Chris Earley: it’s a football
Jonathan Hawkins: It was football phone. And they just sort of chuckled and they said, well, we’re not going to put a phone Jack in your room. So have fun.
Chris Earley: That makes it tricky. There are no cell phones, but I relate to you because you’re a doer, man. Right. So I guess I just, I asked that, I mentioned that because like all this stuff you just mentioned, it’s not like very exotic stuff. It’s just like, ask, I just asked the ABA, can I write for you? They said, yes, Misslers Weekly.
They said, yes, nothing like fancy or nothing very intricate here that I’m doing. Right. But you know, very intentional, like on the flight down on Miami last week, I wrote two ABA articles, just like, Just pump it out. I’ve learned, you know, at Dane Kennedy, Ben Glass, done is better than perfect. I also learned from Dane Kennedy, you gotta have like lines in the water. We just put up a series of billboards around Boston. You know, we’re [00:39:00] doing, you know, email newsletter, you know, just about anything under the sun. Gonna do some buses, you know, just anything that we can do to get our name out there.
LinkedIn, right? These things, yeah, it wasn’t overnight. There’s a lot of, you know, action behind the scenes. There’s a lot of struggle, man. I know you know that. I feel like, more times than not, I’m getting punished in the face. But I’m too dumb to quit. I’m so deep. It’s like, what am I gonna do, like wrap it up and just circle the wagon?
It’s like, no you keep going.
Jonathan Hawkins: What’s, you know, the story of the overnight success. Right. But that’s.
Chris Earley: yeah, but like those things you just mentioned, you know, those columns in the podcast, like, anyone could do that stuff. You just gotta like, just do it. And like, I just let stuff fly, man. I don’t really care. If I put something on LinkedIn, it’s like, is this like a little bit too vulnerable?
I’m like, screw it. Then I’m like, oh my god this hits some people. You know, that’s nice.
Jonathan Hawkins: So, so plug your podcast real quick so people can find it and listen. I think it’s great. So I want other folks to hear it. You got great guests that, you know, similar to this, y’all are spewing some great knowledge about [00:40:00] building firms and operating firms. So yeah, tell folks
Chris Earley: No, I appreciate it. It’s called The Early Show. So my name, I really leveraged that. So I think you need to brand yourself, however that is, right? Lawyers should be branding themselves. So it’s called The Early Show. And I always have lawyers who have had struggle. They’re all mostly personal injury, entrepreneurs who have been through some struggle.
You know, we had Mike Morse from Fireproof. You know, I’m trying to think John Morgan, obviously, he was the first one. We’ve had a series of, you know, Alexander Shannara, right, we’re going to be reaching out to him. Just, like, some people who started with very little, because I, that resonates with me, because we have, like, candidate Ryan McKean, a friend of mine from Connecticut, had a 100 million verdict.
Like, he’s the most humble dude you’re going to meet. So I love to hear about and talk with these lawyers about how they got over. You know, how they flex those resiliency muscles and just, I love that stuff because it’s inspiring to me and it’s inspiring to others, you know, but I appreciate that.
Yeah. The early show, we’re always, you know, [00:41:00] Ben Glass, like I said, was on recently, just a, but Jennifer Gore Cuthbert, just a bunch of people getting after, we just try to provide value to people,
Jonathan Hawkins: name. I did see the billboard, a picture that you posted on LinkedIn. So what’s the tagline? Say it.
Chris Earley: call early before it’s too late,
Jonathan Hawkins: great. I love it. That is great. So plug your weekly email for lawyers too. So how can people sign up for that?
Chris Earley: I think you’re on that, right? Do
you get
Jonathan Hawkins: I’m on that. Yeah.
Chris Earley: So again, just giving value and showing up. And so once a week, it’s called this week’s needs no practice tip. Cause again, I’m a nerd. I like talking about this stuff and I’ll share. Hey, I just learned this thing from this book, right? Just learned something.
It’s all about. You know, trying to just push the needle, help move the needle in some way in someone’s practice. If it helps, great. If not, well, you know, we’re trying. But that’s like on lock. Like that’s every, I just, you know, we had it recently. That’s just like every week. There’s no like [00:42:00] missed weeks.
Right. Like the ABA, like take a few months, like every single month, write that. Early show, we have like a few episodes each month, so like, repetition is your ally, your best bet. And so those just a lot of the stuff we do, but it’s very do, if I can do this, man, anybody can. There’s nothing really highly cerebral about this activity, it’s just like, roll up your sleeves, very kind of blue collar approach, it’s like, do the work.
Roll, roll up your sleeves and break a sweat.
Jonathan Hawkins: I’m a big believer in consistency. The other thing I really, my approach is, you know, willpower will go back. Inertia is a very powerful force. You got to use willpower to get started. And I think a lot of folks can’t overcome that initial resistance. And for
Chris Earley: Why? Why do you think?
Jonathan Hawkins: who knows, for me, and I’m like everybody else, you know, there are things that I, when I first started doing the podcast, I’m sort of like, all right, so for me, I just have to take a couple steps and then that creates some momentum and then I can start going.
The [00:43:00] other thing that helps me is, and you sort of mentioned it is the consistency, but make it a habit. If it’s more of a habit than it’s, you know, and I’m sort of the old Seinfeld thing where you check the box every day. I’m a huge check the box kind of guy. I like to have this streak that I don’t break and I don’t want to break it.
So I think that’s huge. So a couple of things I know you’re going to have to run here in a minute. You know, we’re talking some fairly sophisticated stuff you do and some higher investment in time and things you do, but let’s go back to some of the old school things that I know you’re really good at.
And that’s meeting in person with lawyers. I see you post on LinkedIn all the time about meeting folks for coffee or what not. And, you know, early in my career, that’s how I built a practice. And I know folks out there who, they don’t speak, they don’t have emails, they don’t do anything. They had built their entire practice by taking people to lunch and breakfast.
That’s all they do. So you’re, you know, [00:44:00] tell us about sort of your habit or how you got into that and how often do you do it.
Chris Earley: I would encourage everyone to read Never Eat Alone. Really good book. I think John Morgan suggested it to me. I read it. It’s a thick book. It’s really worth it. Never Eat Alone. That changed my whole mindset when it comes to networking and being a giver. So, you know, what I do is take the week off between Christmas and New Year’s.
I have a think week and I design the goals. So one of my goals this year is to do a certain amount of podcasts, do a certain amount of client appreciation parties and specifically doing a certain amount of attorney meetups. So I track that. So I want to be able to meet about 150 lawyers, either virtually or in person.
So what gets measured gets done, right? So you, I track that militantly. All right. I check how many reviews we’re getting. Everything is tracked. So it gets done, but those coffee meetups, you know, I first started doing it. It’s like this is my wife years ago I was like, man, you gotta get out there Get the business gonna come to me while the business didn’t come to me So I don’t like hunt it down be a hunter because that’s we are and [00:45:00] so I would encourage you, you know I prefer coffee.
It’s a little faster, you know, and it’s no less valuable. So yeah, I’ll take a picture on LinkedIn Hey, like can I tag you? Oh sure But the person, you know, promote them, hey, here’s a real estate lawyer I met, here’s a criminal defense lawyer I met, you know, connect with, you know, get up with him or her.
Right. But that hits a lot of people. And so we’re just trying to, you know, play leverage our assets. You and I are very high on LinkedIn, you know, you’re always getting, you have a massive audience. I’m trailing behind you. I’m trying, but like everyone listening should be on LinkedIn and posting content, right?
It’s free. It’s, you can spend 60 bucks, whatever, a month, premium, but like you’re hitting so many, I did a post like a few months ago, it hit I don’t know. It was massive. Right? You never know when you’re gonna pop. You know that, right? You put a lot of stuff out there. You never know. You may think, ah, this isn’t too good, but like anyone, any, anyone can do it.
If you’re in law school, start pumping out content. Connect with people, like you said, have coffee with lawyers. So, again, I hate to say it again, [00:46:00] what gets measured gets done. You have to meet people. Don’t make it all about you. It’s like, oh, here Jonathan, lemme just talk about myself for, you know, 30 minutes.
Like, no, let’s have it. Like, how can I? Tell me about your practice. What’s a good, what’s a good referral for you? Where are you from? You know, you have kids, you’re married, like, learning about the person. And I’m, I mean, I’ll send them a book. Like, I just met with a real estate lawyer the other day. And I, I’m Tuesday, yesterday, and I sent her a book on Amazon that we talked about.
Right? Just like trying to give a little bit of value and show some that was listening to you. We had a good conversation. And books are sticky, right? They’re hard to throw away. So, little things like that, but you have to get after. You know, Seth Price. You know Seth Price? He’s okay. He talks about nothing good happens behind a computer screen.
Jonathan Hawkins: that’s
Chris Earley: get outside, you know, you got to get outside. You got to shake hands. Pandemic’s over.
Jonathan Hawkins: And early on, and I’ve, you know, you mix in people you know with people you don’t know. You’ve got to get new people in there. And [00:47:00] it’s dating. I mean, you’re going to kiss a lot of frogs. I’ve had some extremely painful meet ups, I’ll call it, that I was, you know, I should have done the coffee so I could get out of there quicker. But so yeah, so I, we’ve got a little bit of time left. So a couple of things. So, I know you also coach attorneys talk about that a little bit.
Chris Earley: Yeah, just like a little side thing I started. I enjoy this stuff and it lights me up. As I said, it gives me energy. So I like helping other lawyers. I’ve got a lot of irons in the fire so I can’t do it a whole lot, but it’s for, it’s really for attorneys between say 500 to a million dollars in revenue, personal injury lawyer.
They’re looking to break to the next level, right? To notch up, to scale. That’s my avatar coaching client, right? But I probably do it for free, you know, it’s, I really enjoy it, but that’s something I’m doing. And just, you know, that starts relationships that could create referrals, cross referrals back and forth.
You just never know. This is a relationship business, right? And like, this isn’t transactional or person to your client, you know, checks in the bank, like done. It’s like you, [00:48:00] people need to get sensitive, lawyers need to be sensitive. This is about relations. That’s why I’m writing a book. It’s to like, deepen authentic, the authentic authentic relationships.
And create more authentic relationships, like sharing your story is super deep, so I’d encourage anyone, I don’t care, maybe it’s, it doesn’t, hopefully it doesn’t have the sadness like mine does, but like, just let it rip, share your story, be authentic, create relationships, and help people out, and you’re gonna, you’re gonna kick butt, yeah, I have no, there’s no question, I know you know from experience, because you are kicking butt, you and I are very much aligned on that.
Jonathan Hawkins: So there’s another thing we have in common. I can’t stop this conversation without asking you about your drumming. You’re a drummer, right?
Chris Earley: you a drummer?
Jonathan Hawkins: am. I am,
Chris Earley: Wow, I’m so bad, man.
Jonathan Hawkins: you know, I don’t get to play much. I have a set. I’m busy. Probably you too. I’d be pretty bad now too, but I love it. I love music, love drumming.
So.
Chris Earley: I love it. I love percussion, man. I always have. I always have.
Jonathan Hawkins: Did you play growing up? When
Chris Earley: Not really, I’m [00:49:00] kinda new to it. I’m like, I got my set in the pandemic. How about you?
Jonathan Hawkins: I grew up playing. I got my first set. Maybe in sixth grade played a
Chris Earley: not messing around.
Jonathan Hawkins: well, you know, it’s sounds more impressive than probably it is. I, you know, in high school we had a band and, you know, we played originals and that was sort of the you know, the Seattle alternative days. So, you know, it’s fun.
And then college played. So, you know, I, now I don’t have anybody to play with and don’t have the time, but still, like I said, I try to get my kids, either one of them. Just to be interested in it and none of neither one of them are right.
Chris Earley: Really? Does it drive your family crazy because it’s so loud or no?
Jonathan Hawkins: Yes. So I have some pads and some things that keep it quiet, but yes, you know, God bless my parents, you know, being the drummer, that’s where the band would often practice, everybody came to our house and it was just, you know, we were jamming, it was
Chris Earley: Play some Soundgarden or Pearl Jam or something?
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. So, [00:50:00] a couple of things I know you got to go, but I know again, family’s really big and important to you. How do you balance? family life and grow in this firm. That’s a, you know, a big issue probably for a lot of folks. I know you got big dreams for the firm, but you also, family is important to you.
How do you balance the two?
Chris Earley: everything. Time management, man. There’s a time to work and there’s a time, like, I don’t, I’m not going to be on email tonight, you know, when I get home. I’ll be home at five o’clock, so I get in super early, like I said, I get home early, so I’m not, my kids are growing up fast, you know, you know how it is, the days are short, I’m sorry, the days are long, the years, they just fly by and so my kids are growing up, so I designed the St.
Jonathan’s so that I’m not, Working crazy hours and not killing myself. I’ll hustle and work my butt off, but I’m not killing myself. I’m not here till 10 o’clock at night. I’m with, I’m at sleep at eight o’clock actually, and I’m hanging with my family, you know, and I’ve, I’ve learned that like, even if your kids are on their phone and they’re like, you know, maybe not listening to you. They’re picking [00:51:00] up what you’re putting down. So I try to pick up myself, you know, when I’m with them, because they know they’re always watching. Kids are watching, right? You know that, right? As a dad, they’re always listening, always want, because I know what it’s like not to have that advantage of not even advantage, just like what you should expect from a dad.
So try to lead into that. But I leave the office every day at four because like this stuff gets done, there’s time management, there’s delegation. I could go up, we could talk for 20 hours, me and you, we could really cut this up, you know, cause we’re both into this, but you gotta get, you gotta get your time management house in order because otherwise that’s a recipe for disaster.
That’s step A I feel, step one, time management. Then you work your way away from, you know, you got to delegate stuff, work your way out of the weeds, get off of email, don’t take unscheduled phone calls, stuff like that frees you up. And that’s what we should be doing as entrepreneurs, right? High level stuff that, that, again, I hate to say lights us up,
Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I’m with you. I took off early three days this week for basketball games. So, you know, [00:52:00] I want to make sure I’m there. So I know your time, I think is, I think we’re up. So, you know, tell the audience how they can find you, how to get in touch with you. Well,
Chris Earley: yeah, I appreciate it. I’m on LinkedIn. Easy to find there or websites, early law group. com reach out to me. I always say Jonathan, like, you know, if you have a question, something that’s tripping you up, I’m no expert here whatsoever, but I’ll talk and I like this stuff. So I would love to hear from you.
So coach. Reach out to me. And let’s try to help each other start a relationship and see what we could do to potentially help each other out and let’s grow together, you know, but I love what you’re doing. This is a really good podcast. So I’m flattered you even asked me to be on. I appreciate it. Just keep doing your thing, man.
I like what you’re doing. I’m vibing to it. So
Jonathan Hawkins: thanks for coming on and everybody it’s early. It’s L E Y not L Y. So,
Chris Earley: Exactly. That’s it.
Jonathan Hawkins: all right, well,
Chris Earley: early.
Jonathan Hawkins: Thanks, Chris.
Chris Earley: Thank you so much, Jonathan.
All [00:53:00]
